I get it: There’s a guy in the White House who you’re not too keen on. You didn’t vote for him, and you sure as hell don’t like his politics.
That’s fair. I get that part of it. You know why? Because I was an angry loud-mouthed asshole for eight long years when Dubya was president, and no one could convince me to be anything but.
But that was then and this is now. It’s now your turn to be angry. It’s your turn to be loud and obnoxious. It’s your turn to be the asshole.
Tag. You’re it.
But while I do get your need to be a dick about this whole health care thing, keep this in mind: If you’re against overhauling the shitty health care system in America, what that really means is that you’re for the money-hungry health insurance companies who let the poor die every single day.
You really have to ask yourself who the bigger evil is. Is it the government? Is it big business? Or is it all of you people who want health care to stay on the same doomed path it has been on for decades now?
Think about that the next time you spout off your socialized medicine rhetoric.
May you all be as painfully unhappy as I was from 2000 to 2008,
The Blarg 
79 comments
Comments feed for this article
August 12, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Mutya
not to mention sarah palins IDIOTIC death panel crap. wth?
August 12, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Terra
I am with Mutya… Sorry Sarah, but you are a total idiot…
I am with you on this one completely. There are two sides for insurance companies or for people… The sad part is the clueless that are being used for the insurance companies benefit…
August 12, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Terra
forgot to push the notify me button :)
August 12, 2009 at 7:38 pm
jeremyrscott
Every time Sara makes a statement from now on at every event, they should play that ridiculous clip from her resignation where she pleaded to the media that “for the sake of our soldiers, quit makin’ stuff up”. Yes Sara, for the sake of our boys… shut the fuck up.
August 12, 2009 at 7:48 pm
jeremyrscott
Oh yeah, and another thing lol. It kills me when pundits and “joe six packs” say things like “Do you really want a government official between you and your Doctor?” Yeah that would be really terrible. Almost as terrible as an greedy insurance company is in-between you and your doctor, especially when they deny paying for a life saving cure because they deem it experimental or because because they say you have a pre existing condition. Why don’t you see that the major difference is the insurance company is trying to make a buck to appease their stock holders. That is there bottom line. All of you mindless sheep reading your little town hall scripts from your friendly nieborhood lobbyist (screaming things like “KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE” — yeah, that’s a real quote), think about that when one of your children is is diagnosed with a terminal condition.
August 12, 2009 at 8:20 pm
pino
Shady,
Thing is, you can’t blame the insurance companies. They are providing a service like any other corporation out there.
If you state your goal in terms that doesn’t include what you think the solution is, you may find that America is right on this one; Universal Health Care is bad bad news. Try it.
“We want a condition whereby all American’s can obtain quality medical care at a low/reasonable cost.”
When you start there, rather than at the end you will find you arrive a very very different place.
Good luck,
-pino
August 12, 2009 at 8:36 pm
jshady
True, they ARE providing a service. Thing is, they’re filthy greedy and don’t play fair.
I believe that everything we have been doing isn’t working, and I’m all for other options. But fact is, politicians have sat on their lazy asses for DECADES, promising they’re going to tackle it, and eventually doing NOTHING.
And now we have a guy who is actually moving forward on SOMETHING and everyone is freaking out! And, whether I agree with every bit of it or not, at least something is being done. Action is being taken.
And I disagree with you about Universal Health Care. I know people who live in countries who HAVE UHC, and they think it works just fine. I’m more inclined to believe those people than I am people who fear something they’ve never experienced.
Thanks for the comment, Pino! I like the back-and-forth dialogue. Seriously.
August 12, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Bork
Dude
a lot of these town halls only invite their constituents when it all began. Those people shouting were largely democrats. This is a populist movement and the mainstream is desperatley making it a left/ right issue when it is so obviously not. Republicans are getting booed off stage At these events and at Tea Parties. The People are reading the bills. (when I get sec I’ll post articles detailing this)
I’m noticing MSNBC going the way of fox news desperatley lying to cover their team or brand of cola if you will. This shit aint no where near socialism it’s pure fascism. Mussolini definition is the state and corporate interests merging and if it quacks like duck acts like duck -I’m gonna call it like I see it. If it was socialism the poor would be getting a piece of the action.
I’m seeing Obama fans go through the same psychology as bush fans like the ones that still believe WMD where found.
This is exciting to me- people are waking up to the puppets!!!!!
Ghandi pointed out to the people that there was like 1 Brit to every 1,000 Indian and that to stop fighting with each other because it’s what they want them to do. It’s time to come together and define the real enemy!
August 12, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Ralph-
Great, now you just pissed off all the old farts that come to this page! Now they will never come back!
August 12, 2009 at 8:47 pm
pino
Shady,
Greedy? What do you mean by greedy? If you mean that they act in the best interest of themselves and their shareholders, then yes, they are greedy. And we rely on that to make the whole thing work. For that matter, I am greedy, you are greedy. We are all acting for our own best interest.
Now, if you mean the kind of greedy that involves breaking the law, well, then yeah, a whole ‘nother story. THOSE people should be prosecuted. But those people make you and I mad not because they are greedy, but because they are criminals preying on the most vulnerable members of society. Remember, selling medication to sick people is a blessing. Pushing that same medicine on a junkie is criminal.
I get why you don’t like the current system, very few of us do. The whole medical care market is not free to adjust like the market for, say, a calculator. 30 years ago a simple basic calculator cost ya $120 bucks. Today, they are just under $2.99. Why? Free market and competition.
If you want cheaper higher quality medical care, which I think you do, then break the barriers that is causing that. Don’t keep the same crappy system and just “make it free”. Fix the system.
August 12, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Bork
There are a lot of good solutions out there. I’ve heard some good ones from Republicans too. Like, get rid of income tax and have a lower tax instead to fund it. Or tax the wall street criminals on derivatives or other financial speculation.
“If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains s…et lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” ~~ Samuel Adams, the Revolutionary Patriot and Colonial Outlaw under British Tyranny.
August 12, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Bork
this photo sums up perspective:
August 12, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Bork
Some good points Pino. I think that one can argue though, that we haven’t had true free markets in a very long time
August 12, 2009 at 9:02 pm
pino
Bork,
I tried to get the most free market I could think of. But you are right. However, just cause the markets are not perfectly free doesn’t mean we need to embrace the most destructive force known to innovation, quality and affordability.
August 12, 2009 at 9:07 pm
jshady
Their greed is to a level where what they’re doing IS criminal.
They are criminals because they prey on anyone who wants to keep living. To be read: EVERYONE. When one fucking pill for a chemo patient costs $300, THAT is fucking criminal.
They had their chance to play fair and they fucked it up. They could have fixed this by controlling their costs. They didn’t. Because of this, they should be destroyed.
Treat people like shit, try and milk every last penny out of them because of their desire to keep living, and you shouldn’t even be ALLOWED to compete in the free market. These cocksuckers should be strung up by their nuts in the town square and we all should be allowed to throw rocks at their head.
But I’m still confused what your problem with “free” is?
August 12, 2009 at 9:10 pm
jshady
Let me be clear, Bork: I don’t like politicians. I think they’re all pretty awful. But you can’t tell me that this administration isn’t at least doing less damage than the previous. So far, at least.
August 12, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Bork
It’s seamless integration.
Give me a minute I’ll dig some stuff up
August 12, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Bork
it went from “right cover” to “left cover”
August 12, 2009 at 9:18 pm
pino
They are criminals because they prey on anyone who wants to keep living. To be read: EVERYONE. When one fucking pill for a chemo patient costs $300, THAT is fucking criminal.
Oky, so you would rather not have them create the pill to begin with? That innovation just stop? What do you think drives these people to work 90 hours a week after going to school for 16 years? YOUR appreciation? Nope. It’s to see the reward of their sacrifice.
And you wanna know the single best system yet invented to accomplish that? The free market. Capitalism.
I guarantee you that if one company sees another selling pills for 300 a pop, they’ll get in the market and make a better cheaper pill.
But you can’t tell me that this administration isn’t at least doing less damage than the previous. So far, at least.
Absolutely this administration has done more to harm our economy than the previous. Without a doubt. Without single doubt.
August 12, 2009 at 9:20 pm
jshady
I’d rather have them be human beings and not greedy fucking pigs. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for.
And you’re INSANE if you think Obama’s done more damage in 8 months than Bush did in 8 years. INSANE.
August 12, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Bork
This is on par with Nixon’s enemy list…spying on people and reporting them to the government. sounds crazy but it’s true
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/
There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
August 12, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Julie
I live in Canada, and people tend to think that because we don’t have to pay to be seen in the Emergency Room or Urgent Care that we must not be thoroughly checked out or taken care of.
I went into the ER last month with severe back and abdominal pains to the point where it was too painful to walk. Yes I had to wait about 2 hours before I was seen but once I got in I had a bed, they hooked me up to fluids, gave me pain killers, did both blood tests and a urinalysis, xrays and an ultrasound. Found the problem, treated me, and I was home later that day. The whole process took about 8 hours but they did absolutely everything they could for me and I went home feeling very comfortable.
That is the only way I’ve ever known health care to work and I have no complaints.
August 12, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Bork
24 trillion stolen in bailouts
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32010841/ns/business-us_business
I don’t think it’s one admin. over the other it’s a seamless boot stamping on a human face forever
August 12, 2009 at 9:27 pm
jshady
Exactly, Julie! And don’t think that we here in America DON’T wait for two hours when we walk into an emergency room. Our system is just as efficient. The difference is that yours is FREE.
I like your system better.
August 12, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Bork
This article has been removed but here’s what I got
Obama backs Bush: No rights for Bagram prisoners
NEDRA PICKLER and MATT APUZZO
Associated Press
February 21, 2009
The Obama administration, siding with the Bush White House, contended Friday that detainees in Afghanistan have no constitutional rights.
In a two-sentence court filing, the Justice Department said it agreed that detainees at Bagram Airfield cannot use U.S. courts to challenge their detention. The filing shocked human rights attorneys.
“The hope we all had in President Obama to lead us on a different path has not turned out as we’d hoped,” said Tina Monshipour Foster, a human rights attorney representing a detainee at the Bagram Airfield. “We all expected better.”
The Supreme Court last summer gave al-Qaida and Taliban suspects held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the right to challenge their detention. With about 600 detainees at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan and thousands more held in Iraq, courts are grappling with whether they, too, can sue to be released.
Three months after the Supreme Court’s ruling on Guantanamo Bay, four Afghan citizens being detained at Bagram tried to challenge their detentions in U.S. District Court in Washington. Court filings alleged that the U.S. military had held them without charges, repeatedly interrogating them without any means to contact an attorney. Their petition was filed by relatives on their behalf since they had no way of getting access to the legal system.
August 12, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Julie
I don’t know what I’d do if it wasn’t free. I am quite accident prone! :)
August 12, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Bork
keeping rendition
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/01/nation/na-rendition1
August 12, 2009 at 9:43 pm
pino
And you’re INSANE if you think Obama’s done more damage in 8 months than Bush did in 8 years. INSANE.
My wife says I’m crazy; you might be on to something.
Julie
I live in Canada, and people tend to think that because we don’t have to pay to be seen in the Emergency Room or Urgent Care that we must not be thoroughly checked out or taken care of.
Julie, emergent care is not the issue. Canada doesn’t have enough general practitioners. Canada doesn’t have enough MRI machines. Canada doesn’t know how to treat cancer. Canada doesn’t know how to perform the life saving surgeries that many many people need.
I mean, how many Americans flock to Canada for care? Exactly ZERO!
Oh yeah, and it ain’t free for you. Taxes are very very much higher than here. To the point that all economic stimulation is drained.
What was the last Canadian break through in ANYTHING?
August 13, 2009 at 2:14 am
jshady
HAHAHA! I like your style, Pino!
August 12, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Bork
This guy ties it together well
http://nafeez.blogspot.com/2009/01/obama-regime-rotation.html
August 12, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Bork
I find Mike Adams to be very credible- here’s a plain english translation of some important provisions
http://www.naturalnews.com/026733_health_health_care_healthcare.html
August 12, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Terra
With the amount of money the insurance industry pulls in they are my definition of greedy. That they would kick a little kid off his or her insurance after they get sick, makes them greedy. The list goes on…
The insurance agencies effectively work together creating a monopoly, and the tricks of one ends up the tricks of another. This creates a lack of competition, and if someone comes up with a feasible way to fix this other than the government I would love to hear it.
Thus far I have only heard ideas that have been tried, and the companies have only taken advantage of at the expense of the people. We aren’t talking living without a laptop, or living without a TV, we are talking health care. Health care is just as important as food, without it…
August 12, 2009 at 9:57 pm
crb
gotta remember this bill isn’t socialized it is paid for by big insurance
August 12, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Terra
“Canada doesn’t have enough general practitioners. Canada doesn’t have enough MRI machines. Canada doesn’t know how to treat cancer. Canada doesn’t know how to perform the life saving surgeries that many many people need.”
ROFL, I know several people that have ran across to Canada to have a baby :) However, I don’t know any Canadians that have run over here for anything. (Not saying it doesn’t happen both ways, but I don’t personally know any.)
As for the lack of general practitioners, it is a problem in both places. (Heck in a town two hours away from me, in Wyoming, it takes 6 months to get into a GP, even in the worst area in Canada that is MUCH worse.) Why if Canada can’t do that stuff to they have been stats in all areas of other care? The ONLY one that we beat Canada in is cancer, and the rate is a 3% difference… Our babies die more often than those in Canada, we don’t live as long, the list goes on…
Doesn’t make sense to put so much stock into ONE aspect of over all care…
August 12, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Bork
google:
What’s Really in Obama’s Health Care Reform Bill natural news
August 13, 2009 at 2:54 am
Terra
ROFL… The “bill” isn’t written yet… There are several versions being “negotiated” as it is standard procedure with all bills to do… However, take a look for yourself. As for the readability, if you can’t understand it you need to go back to school as my 15 year old gets it…
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:
However, like ALL legal documents you have to read the WHOLE thing or you won’t get it…
August 13, 2009 at 2:56 am
Terra
I didn’t mean that to sound so snippy… I am just tired of those arguments as they have no basis, and anyone with just a tiny bit of legal knowledge can understand it, and those without any legal know how should be able to understand that loop holes are created in language that is to direct…
August 12, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Terra
Sorry to take over your thread, just realized this question :)
“What was the last Canadian break through in ANYTHING?”
Someone has been listening to the stuff about the US being the best at everything to much…
Just a few…
2005 Initiation of first human clinical gene therapy trials for lipoprotein lipase deficiency. (Provincial Health Services Authority/BC Children’s Hospital – Vancouver, British Columbia)
2006 Discovery of the precise molecular chain of events that initiates the wide-scale immune destruction of “super bug” infections such as flesh-eating disease, toxic shock syndrome and severe food poisoning. (Robarts Research Institute — London, Ontario)
2006 Implantation of an antibody-coated stent into the first human patient. The invention of the antibody-coated stent reduces restenosis and prevents blood clots from occurring. (St. Michael’s Hospital — Toronto, Ontario)
2006 World’s first clinical trial to combine gene and cell therapy to treat a cardiovascular disorder. The PHACeT (Pulmonary Hypertension: Assessment of Cell Therapy) trial will assess the use of adult stem-like cells called endothelial progenitor cells (EPC) for the treatment of pulmonary hypertension. (St. Michael’s Hospital — Toronto, Ontario)
2006 First demonstration that children with cystic fibrosis have choline deficiency. Provision of choline improves redox balance and methyl transfer capacity in humans. (Provincial Health Services Authority/BC Children’s Hospital – Vancouver, British Columbia)
2006 First demonstration that dietary omega-3 fatty acid deficiency impairs neurogenesis in vivo (Provincial Health Services Authority/BC Children’s Hospital – Vancouver, British Columbia)
2006 First curative therapy for Huntington Disease in a mouse model (Provincial Health Services Authority/BC Children’s Hospital, Vancouver, British Columbia)
Canada has produced a disproportionately large number of major biomedical breakthroughs, http://www.canadianmedicinenews.com/2007/11/canadas-greatest-medical-research.html
Canada has good reason to be proud of our medical mavericks and mavens—they are responsible for breakthroughs that have saved lives and affected the health of hundreds of millions of people around the world. http://www.legionmagazine.com/en/index.php/2009/08/eight-great-canadian-medical-breakthroughs/
Also from Canada ScienceDaily (June 10, 2009) — Clinicians from the Centre hospitalier de l’Université de Montréal (CHUM) have perfected an operation, which was previously considered too dangerous, to control refractory insular epilepsy, using an innovative microsurgery technique. According to a study published as the feature article in the latest issue of the Journal of Neurosurgery, the new surgical technique is both safe and beneficial for patients.
August 12, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Bork
Most people don’t know that like in the UK doctors have liability protection. I can only imagine what that leads to
August 13, 2009 at 2:58 am
Terra
lower costs, and they do incentive programs there. The better you do for your patience the more cash you get. Get someone to quit smoking and get a bonus… :)
Most of the doctors and patients are quite happy. However, a plan like that isn’t being proposed here…
August 13, 2009 at 10:15 am
cb
or drop a scalpel in someone and sew them back up or how about some missing arms and legs…have you heard about the person that woke up to find the doctors goofed and cut his legs and arms off…that really happened- sounds crazy I know
August 12, 2009 at 11:37 pm
jeremyrscott
Yeah, Canada might have better taxes, but they don’t have to worry about how they are going to pay medical bills, or have to worry about covering deductibles. RAISE the fucking taxes if that means being covered without having to deal with insurance companies. You don’t think it will be cheeper in the long run compared to having to deal with insurance costs.
August 12, 2009 at 11:37 pm
jeremyrscott
der “higher” taxes not “better” lol.
August 13, 2009 at 12:28 am
kathy
Read this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-jan-schakowsky/why-hilda-needs-universal_b_119714.html
Yes, I know it’s written by a democrat. It still spells out why I — and so many others — so desperately need to see change in the health care industry.
Because our health care should not be a for-profit industry.
August 13, 2009 at 3:19 am
Terra
amen…
http://www.terrasears.com/?p=145
my
story
August 13, 2009 at 12:37 am
Twitted by katkatbobat
[…] This post was Twitted by katkatbobat […]
August 13, 2009 at 2:16 am
jshady
Sorry about the delay in posting some of these comments, folks. Because of the popularity of the post (and the barrage of comments), WordPress starting holding a lot of the comments for pending verification.
Everything should be up there now, but let me know if there are any doubles or if you feel that anything you posted got deleted.
August 13, 2009 at 3:11 am
BIGGEST DAY ON “THE BLARG” YET! « THE BLARG
[…] think it was mostly because of this or this, but I’m more inclined to think it had to do with this. Especially with over 40 comments on the […]
August 13, 2009 at 7:35 am
Julie
Pino,
That was quite rude. there are many amazing Cancer clinics in Canada. I know this considering it is something I happen to have person experience with. Don’t be an ass and state stuff that isn’t true. You are quite ignorant.
Also I’d rather pay taxes then the thousands of dollars the last trip to the ER would have cost me.
August 13, 2009 at 9:08 am
pino
Because our health care should not be a for-profit industry.
So, you don’t think that health care or medical care should be for profit? Do you understand profit in the economic sense? Profit is the signal that tells industry, people and corporations where to allocate scare resources.
If not profit, then those resources are allocated by some other means, usually by people on boards or committees. THAT is politics. Russia has tried this; and they have failed. Further, many other countries have tried to remove the “profit” signal from medical care and they are failing too. Either care is not being provided, it’s provided very very slowly or it is very expensive and the system is so far in debt that the nation loses it’s economic viability.
Is it easy having a conversation with someone that they need to work hard, be responsible, save their money, buy insurance, eat healthy, work out, quit smoking and stuff like that? Nope, no it’s not easy. But that’s the answer.
The concept that you get something for free as a result of someone else sacrificing time and production goes against the very fabric that has made America great. It is Liberty that founded this nation and that Liberty has served us very very well.
And don’t try and tell me that one person, corporation or industry is “greedy” when every single one of us won’t enter into an agreement until we feel it is to our benefit.
August 13, 2009 at 9:23 am
decker
There will never be an end to greed. Nothing will convince the heads of the insurance companies that they don’t need billions in profit. We are too mired in the swamp of profiteering to stop it now. If it means saving a buck or buying yet another house they seem to have no problem with leaving good people to suffer or die.
The cost of the latest greatest equipment or medicine seems insane, but shouldn’t those that spend their lives and brilliance in the pursuit of saving lives be rewarded? We would love to think that they would do this out of the goodness of their hearts. We unfortunately don’t live in that world.
The price of that $300 cancer pill or $600 HIV treatment pays for the research and work on the little things that we don’t think about, the better cold pill for infants, or a better arthritus pill. The types of everyday medications that don’t get alternative funding or support, but are just as vital to those that suffer with those ailments.
The term “socialized” scares the shit out of a lot of people. Maybe if it were named it Happy Fun Time Jesus Get Better Plan we’d have fixed it long ago. We “socialized” the american auto industry and a fair amount of banks with the bail outs, but no one so much as flinched.
Oh shit. I just figured out how to fix it all. POT! Grow the hemp, creating more jobs. Produce the products made with the hemp, creating more jobs. Regulate and tax it like like alcohol and tobaco with those funds going into the health care system.
I’m not some pie eyed, stoner, pot advocate with high hopes of scoring weed without johnny law harshin’ my mellow. It makes sense. Those that would scream that pot is a gateway drug are probably drunks. You are the gate keeper and the key master of your life. Think of the money and time saved on the “War on Drugs” alone if the cops and feds didn’t have to waste time busting weed dealers. Think of the money saved on prisons by not incarcerating those weed dealers.
August 13, 2009 at 9:58 am
pino
There will never be an end to greed.
Of course, you are not greedy. Right?
August 13, 2009 at 12:41 pm
jshady
I DON’T think everyone is greedy. I know that I DEFINITELY do not consider myself to be greedy. I’m broke, pretty much always have been, and CONSTANTLY am donating cash to charities or passing a few bucks to the homeless out here in LA.
Truth be told, I can’t really AFFORD to do ANY of those things. But I do them because those are the morals that were instilled in me by my parents.
I think the health care and drug companies could learn a thing or two from Betty and Ron Shady.
Not everyone is out for the almighty buck, Pino.
August 13, 2009 at 10:21 am
cb
No Bill?
Click to access AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
August 13, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Terra
Right, as in the bill isn’t done… Amendments aren’t made and so forth… http://www.votesmart.org/resource_govt101_02.php
So while there it is in the processes, it is NOT really something to be putting stock into yet :)
August 13, 2009 at 10:24 am
cb
USA Today fact checks Obama.
From the sidebar of the article:
Some of the assertions that President Obama made about his health plan at Tuesday’s town-hall meeting are open to argument:
· “Under the reform we’re proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”
Not necessarily. In an analysis of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee bill, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that 10 million workers could lose employer-provided benefits and would have to find other insurance.
· “Insurance companies basically get $177 billion of taxpayer money to provide services that Medicare already provides.”
About 10.2 million Medicare recipients are in Medicare Advantage. Under that program, the government pays insurers a set amount per Medicare beneficiary. Obama ridiculed it as costly and redundant, but the plan provides additional benefits, such as vision, dental and hearing, to seniors and helps coordinate health care for those with chronic conditions, says Robert Zirkelbach at the trade association, America’s Health Insurance Plans.
· “The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for ‘death panels’ that will basically pull the plug on Grandma. … (T)he intention. .. was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they’re ready, on their own terms. … (O)ne of the chief sponsors of this bill originally was a Republican … (Sen.) Johnny Isakson from Georgia.”
Isakson issued a press release saying Obama misused his name. A provision he attached to a Senate health care bill would allow seniors to obtain help in formulating a living will something Isakson said is different from House language. The House bill would require Medicare to pay for end-of-life counseling sessions, but it would not mandate that anyone use the benefit.
· “AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, OK?”
The AARP issued a press release to make it clear that it has not endorsed any particular health care proposal. “Indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate,” AARP said.
August 13, 2009 at 10:45 am
paulyspooner
Is it impossible for you to imagine a person who is not greedy?
The American Republicans opposed to Barack Obama’s introduction of healthcare reforms have been bad-mouthing the NHS. The NHS is one of my main reasons for thanking heaven I was born here, where I know that whatever my income, our free health system will look after me.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/12/nhs-republicans-health-us
August 13, 2009 at 10:45 am
decker
A suddenly free health care system has it’s reprocutions. What do all of those thousands of insurance company employees do? The last thing our economy needs is an entire industry worth of un-employed people. Cutting cost in the hospitals will cut jobs as well. The up shot is that they’ll have free health care.
August 13, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Terra
There will be layoffs, but it will be a slow process as we aren’t talking about universal insurance. Instead we are talking about a government option. Perhaps we can talk some of those people into going into the medical field, or dentistry (list goes on.)
Over the long term there will be less jobs in this AREA of the industry. However, it will not be an overnight thing. In fact in the short term it might even create a few more jobs until everything is sorted through…
However, long term people can and should be able to make other arrangements for employment. :)
August 13, 2009 at 11:01 am
decker
I wasn’t stating that I was free of greedy impulses. I have on many occassions taken more than my fair share of chocolate cake and drank the last coke. Yes, I want paid well for the work I do to get more stuff to put into a bigger house. There is a big difference in the greed by way of ambition and the greed of excess to the detriment of those less fortunate.
August 13, 2009 at 11:12 am
dwellephant
If President Bush would have put forth all the things Obama’s putting forth about our Health Care system, I’d still be for it.
Why?
Because what’s BEEN, is broken. For DECADES. It needs to change. And rather than go the typical politician route and debate it until its time to campaign for re-election, something actually seems to be happening this time.
THAT’S what terrifies people. CHANGE. People hate it. They hate when it changes what they’ve known. What they’re comfortable with. And they also hate that it could potentially fail, because we’re taught that nothing good comes of failure. (Which is horribly, horribly wrong.)
THAT’s the problem. Because the vast majority of people hate DIFFERENT. It’s why geeks and freaks get picked on, in school AND life. It’s why skin color, gender, and sexual preference has led to people being treated poorly. It’s why we’re still building highways instead of railways and bike lanes. It’s different, and therefore, bad.
If people would just grow a set, and try new things once in a while, we wouldn’t be wasting our time debating about whether or not something that helps people, on the most basic of human levels, is a negative thing.
Stop worrying about our fucking pockets and politics. Start worrying more about our people.
August 13, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Kathy
Here here! Good argument, ol’ chap!
August 13, 2009 at 2:50 pm
pino
There is a big difference in the greed by way of ambition and the greed of excess to the detriment of those less fortunate.
There is no difference. Acting in your own self interest is how people are put together. You can argue that maybe people shouldn’t be greedy, and I resonate with that, but you certainly can not legislate it. People, in their greedy state, will work to move around those laws.
August 13, 2009 at 3:01 pm
paulyspooner
It’s a mistake to judge judge 6.7 billion by such narrow standards. Selfishness helped us dominate as a species to be sure, but altruism played a hand in developing our culture… people are capable of both.
August 13, 2009 at 3:27 pm
pino
It’s a mistake to judge judge 6.7 billion by such narrow standards.
No. It’s a mistake to judge 6 or 7 people by that standard. As the population grows, it becomes increasingly easier to predict and categorize. For example, if a lion escapes during the circus escapes, it is almost impossible to determine how any one person will react. It is very easy to predict how the crowd will react.
When we as humans are able to change our nature; that is how we are at our most basic, then we can entertain a conversation on how best arrange a society of people. Until then, capitalism has proven, through every age in history, to be the single best mechanism to bring people out of abject poverty and repression. The freedom to act in a manner to insure your self interest is today, the best way, to arrange a society.
Do or don’t like greed; that’s your journey. But given that is how people are built, you simply can not ignore the the poorest people on earth are, and always have been, found where that freedom is restricted.
August 13, 2009 at 6:24 pm
jeremyrscott
You’re right Pino. People, in general, can be greedy, spiteful, corrupt swill. So, you suggest that we wallow in our baser instincts, instead of trying to overcome our selfish qualities and attain a more nobel existence… you know, like Jesus Christ preached that all good Christians should do.
August 13, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Kathy
Read this story:
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/cancer-i-cant-afford/#more-45
August 13, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Bork
I’m actually all for healthcare for all. All I’ve been trying to point out is that there is way too much corruption going on to put this thing through. It’s like how I feel about the death penalty. I’d actually be for it but there is so much corruption that I am actually against it with so many innocent people going to jail.
All I’m saying is that this healthcare reform isn’t change it’s nothing but the same.
The reality is that it’s the people versus the Stateists not left versus right.
As I pointed out earlier 24 trillion (double the GDP) stolen for the bankers. That could have paid off all the mortgages, loans, debt of the people more than once over.
It’s INSANE to me that people want this with so much corruption going on. I mean look at Dentists and paramedics being deputized to give flu vaccines to people in this article:
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/08/13/state_asks_volunteers_to_aid_flu_vaccinations/?s_campaign=8315
Massachusetts health authorities took the unprecedented step yesterday of deputizing dentists, paramedics, and pharmacists to help administer vaccines against both the seasonal flu and the novel swine strain expected to make a
return visit in the fall.
Sounds like freedom hey?
and the last time I checked the US was the only free nation to allow pharmaceutical advertisements on television. Another sign of a fascist state in my book.
and does the National guard running H1N1 drills at a high school sound like freedom?
http://www.sunjournal.com/node/105339/
Or how about 400,000 troops on the streets:
http://www.progressive.org/wx081209b.html
Corruption is exploding at the seems and it’s not going to disappear with regime change. Feel free to laugh but I’m not. This is deadly serious
August 14, 2009 at 1:15 am
Bork
I encourage people to sign this petition:
http://www.healthrevolutionpetition.org/
just about everything in it I’m behind
August 14, 2009 at 1:51 am
paulyspooner
Pino: you are obviously very well informed and articulate individual. You make a lot of very salient points, some of which I agree, some I don’t, but I can see now that there is no point arguing with you, because you will never see any other point other than your own. You are a zealot to your cause, and as such incapable of entertaining any other opinion than your own. You KNOW you are right Arguing with such certainty is pointless, because you aren’t even listening…
Good luck and Peace…
November 8, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Bork
Hate to come back and say I told you so but this is important to be informed about. Dennis Kucinich the man with the real health reform bill and whom I pushed heavily for during the election. Points out exactly my arguement. It’s Facist Healthcare. Period.
(November 7, 2009)
Congressman Dennis Kucinich after voting against H.R. 3962 addresses why he voted NO, stating:
“We have been led to believe that we must make our health care choices only within the current structure of a predatory, for-profit insurance system which makes money not providing health care. We cannot fault the insurance companies for being what they are. But we can fault legislation in which the government incentivizes the perpetuation, indeed the strengthening, of the for-profit health insurance industry, the very source of the problem. When health insurance companies deny care or raise premiums, co-pays and deductibles they are simply trying to make a profit. That is our system.”
“Clearly, the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution. They are driving up the cost of health care. Because their massive bureaucracy avoids paying bills so effectively, they force hospitals and doctors to hire their own bureaucracy to fight the insurance companies to avoid getting stuck with an unfair share of the bills. The result is that since 1970, the number of physicians has increased by less than 200% while the number of administrators has increased by 3000%. It is no wonder that 31 cents of every health care dollar goes to administrative costs, not toward providing care. Even those with insurance are at risk. The single biggest cause of bankruptcies in the U.S. is health insurance policies that do not cover you when you get sick.”
“But instead of working toward the elimination of for-profit insurance, H.R. 3962 would put the government in the role of accelerating the privatization of health care. In H.R. 3962, the government is requiring at least 21 million Americans to buy private health insurance from the very industry that causes costs to be so high, which will result in at least $70 billion in new annual revenue, much of which is coming from taxpayers. This inevitably will lead to even more costs, more subsidies, and higher profits for insurance companies – a bailout under a blue cross.”
“By incurring only a new requirement to cover pre-existing conditions, a weakened public option, and a few other important but limited concessions, the health insurance companies are getting quite a deal. The Center for American Progress’ blog, Think Progress, states, ‘since the President signaled that he is backing away from the public option, health insurance stocks have been on the rise.’ Similarly, healthcare stocks rallied when Senator Max Baucus introduced a bill without a public option. Bloomberg reports that Curtis Lane, a prominent health industry investor, predicted a few weeks ago that ‘money will start flowing in again’ to health insurance stocks after passage of the legislation. Investors.com last month reported that pharmacy benefit managers share prices are hitting all-time highs, with the only industry worry that the Administration would reverse its decision not to negotiate Medicare Part D drug prices, leaving in place a Bush Administration policy.”
“During the debate, when the interests of insurance companies would have been effectively challenged, that challenge was turned back. The ‘robust public option’ which would have offered a modicum of competition to a monopolistic industry was whittled down from an initial potential enrollment of 129 million Americans to 6 million. An amendment which would have protected the rights of states to pursue single-payer health care was stripped from the bill at the request of the Administration. Looking ahead, we cringe at the prospect of even greater favors for insurance companies.”
“Recent rises in unemployment indicate a widening separation between the finance economy and the real economy. The finance economy considers the health of Wall Street, rising corporate profits, and banks’ hoarding of cash, much of it from taxpayers, as sign of an economic recovery. However in the real economy – in which most Americans live – the recession is not over. Rising unemployment, business failures, bankruptcies and foreclosures are still hammering Main Street.”
“This health care bill continues the redistribution of wealth to Wall Street at the expense of America’s manufacturing and service economies which suffer from costs other countries do not have to bear, especially the cost of health care. America continues to stand out among all industrialized nations for its privatized health care system. As a result, we are less competitive in steel, automotive, aerospace and shipping while other countries subsidize their exports in these areas through socializing the cost of health care.”
“Notwithstanding the fate of H.R. 3962, America will someday come to recognize the broad social and economic benefits of a not-for-profit, single-payer health care system, which is good for the American people and good for America’s businesses, with of course the notable exceptions being insurance and pharmaceuticals.”
November 8, 2009 at 5:48 pm
jshady
First, it’s not fascist. I think that’s just a term people like to throw around for effect.
Second, I’m not entirely for this health care bill either, but it’s the best chance we have of getting the ball rolling on something new. What’s the alternative? If not this, what? Status quo? Keeping the system we have now? If you answer yes to that, you should know that Don Punchatz, a 73-year-old artist, died last month with NO HEALTH INSURANCE. He left his family a mountain a debt to deal with. That should concern you, because that’s gonna be us in a few decades.
Don’t get me wrong, dude, Kucinich is one of TWO politicians I actually like. I voted for him in the primary, as I have in ALL primaries. But the sad fact is this: Dennis Kucinich is NEVER GOING TO BE PRESIDENT. EVER. The best we can hope for is that he will influence someone else, a younger generation who might some day hold the office.
And just as Dennis Kucinich will never be president, health care will never change if we don’t start somewhere. This is that starting point.
Like I said, I’m not 100% on this bill. But it’s light years beyond the garbage we have now. And if you question that, you should ask Don Punchatz’s family.
November 8, 2009 at 9:23 pm
pino
Don Punchatz, a 73-year-old artist, died last month with NO HEALTH INSURANCE.
Would health insurance have saved his life?
with NO HEALTH INSURANCE.
Why didn’t he have health insurance?
NO HEALTH INSURANCE.
Virtually NOBODY has health insurance at age 73; thats when we go on the government dole.
He left his family a mountain a debt to deal with.
What kinda debt? Medical related debt? Or some other kinda debt not related to medical bills?
Medical related debt?
If it IS medical debt, then you should tell his family to obtain consul; medical debt is typically legally bound to the individual and is non-transferable at death.
And if you question that, you should ask Don Punchatz’s family.
Why, are they a family educated in economics? Cause you aren’t.
November 9, 2009 at 3:51 am
jshady
And you are, Philip Paul Miller? Because you sound like nothing more than a putz to me.
November 9, 2009 at 4:05 am
jshady
Actually, I shouldn’t call you names. Instead, I’m actually going to answer your questions above… giving answers that are as absolutely asinine as the questions.
Would health insurance have saved his life?
Yes, because God is made of chocolate.
Why didn’t he have health insurance?
Because of “Transformers 2.” I mean, did you see that thing? That movie was bad enough to take away health insurance from anyone.
Virtually NOBODY has health insurance at age 73; thats when we go on the government dole.
This isn’t a question, but I still want to say that God is made of chocolate.
What kinda debt? Medical related debt? Or some other kinda debt not related to medical bills?
Debt that was accrued from his addiction to Asian Americans. It was a really bad addiction.
Medical related debt?
You actually already asked that above. Have you been drinking again, Philip Paul Miller?
If it IS medical debt, then you should tell his family to obtain consul; medical debt is typically legally bound to the individual and is non-transferable at death.
Thanks, I’ll be sure to pass that along to his grieving family. I’m sure they’d love the advice from a right-wing conservative from the south.
Why, are they a family educated in economics? Cause you aren’t.
Actually, yes, Don was the cousin of Milton Friedman. How funny you should ask. And I never said I was educated in economics, PPM. I’m just here to make people laugh by making you angry.
Mission accomplished!
November 10, 2009 at 10:18 am
paulyspooner
I think you will find that Buddha is made of chocolate… God is made of cheese…STINKY cheese.
That’s right, I said it…NOW DEAL WITH IT!
November 10, 2009 at 12:47 pm
jshady
DAMN RIGHT, stinky cheese!
November 10, 2009 at 1:13 pm
paulyS
If only Richard Dawkins were here to read this….
November 10, 2009 at 1:20 pm
jshady
It would be an HONOR to have Richard Dawkins read anything on this site.